July 10, 2012
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Should Helmets Be Required?
Recently, Michigan repealed the helmet law. It is now legal to drive your motorcycle around without a helmet. The argument went something like this…
“I’m allowed to make bad decisions, don’t force your views on me!”
-OR-
“I’ll be dead if I crash and that’s a chance I’m willing to take.”
The problem with this is that you don’t usually die if you crash your motorcycle. Usually you just get very badly hurt. I don’t care how good of a motorcyclist you happen to be, unexpected things happen. Deer run into the road, other drivers might be terrible and cut you off, it can happen. It does happen. As an ER doctor, when it does, I become responsible for your bad decision not to use a helmet.
We have already taken care of several individuals with intracranial bleeds that would have been prevented if the driver had been wearing a helmet. These individuals have looooong roads of recovery in front of them which will cost thousands of dollars. Often these individual end up in long term nursing facilities with various levels of return of functionality. All of this could have been prevented by wearing a helmet.
Seat belts are required while driving cars.
Life jackets are required in boats.
Should Helmets Be Required by Law? What do you think?
Should Helmets Be Required by Law? What do you think?
Comments (149)
Of course they should be required.Stupid to think otherwise.
They should be required.
Yes, just like seat belts are required.
They should be required. It’s ridiculous that arguments that would be laughed at if they were used in other areas (e.g. seat belts) are so compelling when it comes to motorcycle helmets.
Dumb. Just dumb.
One of those cop chase shows said that cops refer to runaway bikers as “organ donors”.
Last yer when I was in Colombia, I stopped at a traffic light. The motorcycle behind me didn’t; he hit my back bumper and flipped over his handlebars. He wasn’t hurt. He was wearing a helmet. If he hadn’t had a helmet on, even a low-speed accident like that could have done damage.
My friend who is an EMT has a nick name for people who ride without helmets…they call them “organ donors”.
Yes, you can say “My choice!”
But your family will still sue if you die…so you sort of set up a Greek tragedy.
Now that rich people are responsible for paying everyone’s medical bills, they have a right to have laws that reduce the drain on their bank accounts.
I think helmets should be required. It doesn’t make sense to allow people to drive/ride motorcycles without helmets when one must buckle up in a car or wear a life jacket on a boat. Unless they’re trying to allow natural selection to remove these folks from our existence….
my bike, my life, my choice.
Way to go, Michigan!
@galadrial - lol, whom would my family sue? The insurance company of the person that hit me? If they were at fault, and I’d lived, I’d take court action too. So heres an idea, put the cell phone down while ppl drive and don’t hit me.
Ultimately, I’m insured, quite nicely. So how is my wearing a helmet the business of anyone other than myself?
It isn’t.
I wonder why it is that when a woman wants to kill her unborn child, it is HER body to do with it as she pleases, but when it comes to helmets and seat belts, all that thinking goes out the window? Even though in those cases, it really is ONLY their bodies being affected. I’m the only one who agrees with @IntoTheWind1 - but I do.
@mtngirlsouth - precisely
“we can do whatever we want…and you can do whatever we want, too”
I agree that it is their choice, but they are being careless with their lives. I would never ride a motorcycle without one because if an accident did happen I am less likely to survive. *shrug*
@IntoTheWind1 - So that will help me lots, if you lose control, and I happen to be the one who hits you?
Yup…I could see how that would make it all better. My husband drives a Harley 1200 Sportster.. He uses a helmet. His answer to you? Will you sign a legal waiver that says if someone hits you, they will not be charged with vehicular homicide if you die? And another, in case your insurance denies your claim, so the person doesn’t lose everything they have, because you felt like being Steve McQueen.
I see how people drive around bikers…it needs improvement.
But I’ve also seen morons on crotch rockets take some awfully stupid chances.
If you can keep yourself safe, and don’t, you’re risking more than yourself.
Two years back, a man died diving off the Florida Keys. He had an existing health issue. He knew he was at risk. He signed a waiver…and died. His family sued anyway. So please…don’t make ti sound all cut and dried. That is bullshit.
@galadrial - first, sure, I’ll sign that.
Second, if I lose control (and thanks, but I dont ride stupid like those you mention bc guess what.. I kind of have a vested interest in. keeping my bike right side up) and you hit me, a helmet wont stop you from killing me. Must that I wear a neck brace too? How about a rib cage protector as well?
by the time I need the helmet, the accident is already happening, and a helmet wont stop that or protect the others involved.
Lastly, it is cut and dry. I’ll sign your waiver, now how is it any longer even remotely your business if I wear one?
Cut and dry: it isn’t.
Tell your husband I wish him safe rides.
@IntoTheWind1 - Well hon…safe rides too.
BTW…since motorcycle fatalities DOUBLED in the last two years, my insurance company decided to drop ALL bike coverage. The policies from other companies are also double. But no…no reason to think your “freedom” might effect anyone else.
@IntoTheWind1 - Actually, that is a good point but you may want to check your insurance policy and see if you are covered when not wearing a helmet. They can be sneaky with this sort of stuff.
@galadrial - i pay my bill just fine. Riding isn’t a right, and most states don’t require motorcycle insurance. Maybe it works for you, but I refuse to feel guilty for someone else not being able to afford something. Sympathetic? Sure. Guilty? Not for a damn second.
And just for clarity’s sake, lets not presume that helmets aren’t worn in any of those deaths, or that a helmet would have saved those lives. I dont personally care for you, but youre usually at least a little more honest than that insinuation.
Newsflash: Calling a Sportster is a joke, along with wearing a helmet. I bet your Hubby hit 40 years old and just bought his first bike. I feel sorry for both of you, and his helmet isn’t going to help.@galadrial - @IntoTheWind1 -
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@mtngirlsouth - Gotta love hypocrisy. Or not…
@mtngirlsouth - @firetyger - As Hypocritical as those who fight so strongly to have the baby not aborted….also fight so hard to to leave that same baby to starve to death or die of some illness simply for having poor parents.
@IntoTheWind1 - I know too many who favor a Sportster who’d be only too happy to kick his ass into next Tuesday….maybe the “big man” wants to go up to Strugis and say the same. Of course…if he drives something larger, he could just be compensating…sad.
@tendollar4ways - It takes a VERY SPECIAL IGNORANT to drag abortion into a helmet debate.And no, I wasn’t talking about you.
@galadrial - There’s no ignorance involved. Perhaps it’s above your mental acuity, but the comparison is there, and valid. If you, as a woman, can say that it’s your body, and your choice, why can’t I, as a man, say the same thing?
The comparison is valid, and launching into pejoratives instead of seeing that comparison and actively engaging it is behavior I’d expect from a “very special ignorant,” not someone who presents themselves as a reasoned individual.
Helmets should be required at all times, from birth until death, no matter what a person is doing. Many thousands of lives would be saved if this was required by law.
@lonelywanderer2 - You have a good point. In fact, I think life preservers should be worn at all times in any state that has any body of water larger than a bathtub as well. You just never know what could happen, after all.
@tendollar4ways - I am glad we managed to keep this thread about helmets instead of arguing our pet issues.
I agree.
@IntoTheWind1 - You as a man can say the same thing when it comes to your penis, make routine male infant circumcision illegal but for heaven’s sake, grow up and wear a helmet.
The “right to life” people had a religious fit in the Terri Schiavo case and the Jack Kevorkian case.
Fine, if people want to be babies about it let it be perfectly legal to be completely stupid. But also add in some other provisions like if you are driving a motorcycle without wearing a helmet and get into an accident (whether your fault or not) then you can’t sue for medical bills or pain and suffering. Sucks to be stupid, but others shouldn’t have to pay when someone refuses to be safe and wear a helmet.
@TheTheologiansCafe - I am glad we managed to keep this thread about helmets instead of arguing our pet issues.
The same way Paige Roberts hijacked my “straight people pretending to be gay to get a date thread” into “gay males are the ones responsible for all the disease’s” thread.
@IntoTheWind1 - SO…you’ve had many pregnancies? Oh that’s right…NONE.
Talk to me after you have.
I think it’s absurd to have a different standard for motorcycles, especially given how much more dangerous they are than cars. And I think you make a legitimate argument about the burden not being simply private consequences.
@mtngirlsouth - Apparently you didn’t even read the blog. The whole argument is that it effects other people to the tune of lots of work and money. And the only thing that effects society as regards to abortion is if someone doesn’t have one and then society has to deal with the kid’s carbon footprint, pay for their education etc, etc. It’s not like you having an abortion would somehow hurt me or cost me money.
I’m not debating whether abortion is moral or immoral, but there’s no comparison in this case.
@IntoTheWind1 - Life preservers, bullet resistant clothing, fireplaces that can’t possibly cause a home fire, require every possible protective device or safety law we can think of!!! Wouldn’t that make the World a little slice of paradise???
I personally believe that helmets should be required at all times.
Those kinds of laws save lives. It’s like the seatbelt law. Sure a helmet law is a good idea and MI was silly to repeal it.
@tendollar4ways - It’s called teaching them to be responsible parents not murdering parents man.Why do liberals have such a hard time grasping that.Unbelievable!!!
Riding something the size of a motorcycle amongst cars 4 times it’s size isn’t a smart thing anyway,riding at high speeds is insane and as far as wearing a helmet,sure it will protect the safe driver somewhat,but the insane crotchrocket cyclests,even a full body suit wouldn’t help them much.Motorcyles are cool,don’t get me wrong,where a person rides one is whats crazy.
@galadrial - lmao. How does that change my ability to understand the basic principle of the issue, namely the right to do with one’s own body as they so choose? I get so much enjoyment out of crap like your comment though. Let’s turn everything into a “You’re not a woman so you can’t understand” instead of actually talking about the principle. I don’t have to have been pregnant to understand the concept of someone having the right to do with their body as they so choose.
Let me know when you can have an intelligent conversation on the issue. I’ll wait, patiently.
@agnophilo - What about the woman who has an abortion, then regrets it, and ends up needing therapy, at the expense of the state? Oops. If there’s the “what if you lose control and I hit you” argument, then there’s that argument too. It’s absurd to think that someone having an abortion affects society in no way at all, but then say that someone dying in a wreck bc they didn’t wear a helmet does affect society.
Increased insurance costs? Ok, well… an abortion that’s covered under insurance is a cost for the company. The very nature of insurance is that it’s a pooled cost system. The more services performed, the greater the cost, and the greater the premiums so that company can recoup their losses.
End of story: It’s my life that I risk when I ride without a helmet. Wearing a helmet will not protect anyone else, nor will not wearing a helmet endanger anyone else. By the time I need the helmet, the crash is already happening, and the helmet won’t affect that. I pay for my insurance, my potential burial costs are covered, and the only way someone in my family could sue the other driver is if the other driver is at fault… ergo, just don’t fucking hit me, and you won’t have to worry about it.
i road bikes for years. there are several things to know as a biker.
1) cars don’t always see you. when i rode the biggest cause of motorcycle accidents was a driver didn’t “see” you before making a left turn resulting in the biker going into the side of the car.
2) never get boxed in by automobiles. always make sure there’s a cushion of space around you
3) wear leather. leather protects your skin if you crash and skid on a road. i’m sure you’re aware “road burn” is painful and can even be deadly if a staff infection sets in
4) wear a helmet moron. the whole pseudo-macho decision not to wear a helmet is pathetic at best. as you pointed out bikers don’t always die in crashes but suffering serious head trauma can result in others having to take care of them including loved ones. what’s worse is if you don’t have a helmet for yourself you likely don’t have one for your passenger, be it your wife, girlfriend, kid. want to live with turning your passenger into a helpless person because you didn’t want to spring a few hundred bucks?
i bought SNELL approved helmets, they are better than DOT approved helms. BMW made helms with buttons on either side of the jaw piece which allowed the jaw piece to be lifted over the head. it’s ironic that in the U.S. this function exempted them from being SNELL approved. German police and paramedics are trained in and understand the reason for the jaw piece functionality. it allows a paramedic access for oral resuscitation without having to remove a helmet which can be dangerous when there is a possibility of spinal injury.
at the helmet department of a motorcycle shop there was a sign, “If you’ve got a $10 head buy a $10 helmet”. wise ass that i was i pointed to the sign and asked the guy behind the counter if he had a helm for 5 bucks. i thought it was funny but he gave me a deadpan look as if i was the 10th guy to say that to him this week and it was only Monday.
best of all…leathers and a full-faced helmet look way cool.
oh and in today’s world when people text on talk on their cells while they drive? holy crap
In PA, we don’t have to wear a helmet unless we are driving on a motorcycle permit, which I have. Even if I had my license I would never go without the helmet. That’s like sex with a prostitute and no condom. You just don’t do it if you don’t want to die.
@IntoTheWind1 - I will apologize for being curt.
HOWEVER…the two issues are not the same.
You can ride your bike without a helmet, but I presume if you have a passenger would not refuse them one if they wanted it, correct? Because a rational person can make their OWN decision. If you total on the bike, at least they have a chance of surviving. Pregnancy however NEVER directly effects the father. His blood pressure will not spike abruptly, and kill him. His heart will not assume life threatening rhythms that could end his life. There are no medical effects to the father of any fetus…not like the ones women face. He won’t die from eclampsia, or toxemia…but but SHE can.
My entire opinion on choice revolves around that one thing. The woman can die…so she calls the shots. No one has the right to FORCE her through a pregnancy that might kill her. I won’t apologize for the opinion.
I’m sorry you think I am a bitch…we certainly got off on the wrong foot. But I still say the two issues are unrelated, and therefore specious to contrast.
@galadrial - Pregnancy never affects the father, sure. But what about the abortion? Does that affect the father? I dare you to tell me it doesn’t.
I appreciate your apology, and I accept it.
Will I offer a helmet to passengers? I absolutely will. I own two extra helmets for just that eventuality. Like I said… it’s a matter of personal choice.
The thing is, there’s no where in the world that forces you to NOT wear a helmet. We don’t need more legislation. If you want to wear one, wear one. If you don’t want to wear one, you ought to be able to make that choice. Many states that allow riding without helmets require those people to have a certain amount of bodily injury, and accidental death insurance. That, to me, solves the problem.
In any event, thank you for the conversation, and since neither one of us will change the other’s mind, I’m going to leave it now.
@galadrial - and, tit for tat, I’ll apologize for being less than… pleasant as well. I’m stubborn. Can’t help it. My sincere apologies for the insulting tone.
@Somefishytales - I’m a die hard Republican and have been since Jimmy Carter lost his re-election bid. There’s nothing about abortion that teaches responsibility. It is about respecting a person’s right to decide what happens to their own body. If it were about responsibility, then we’d be screaming for laws making both parents change diapers or something.
@IntoTheWind1 - Accepted.
As you said…we disagree.
And this is one issue where no one changes their stand.
I appreciate the respect…and offer it in return.
@IntoTheWind1 - Have you known a woman who sought counseling for a regretted abortion? I don’t despite knowing many women who have gotten abortions.
Have you known a person who accidentally (and through no fault or neglect of their own) killed a person in a car accident? I do, and guess what they’ll never be able to forgive themselves. Helmet laws aren’t so simplistically only about the person on the bike. Personally, I don’t frankly care as stupid will be stupid. But I also don’t think it is a great idea to fight against such a law when one chooses to ride on public streets. (Hell… I know motorcycles even to know the real debate is do helmet obstruct view enough that they may cause some accidents.)
@TiredSoVeryTired - I’m a diehard conservative,right now Republicans are far from that.NOT aborting teaching responsibilty.It teaches respect for life!Abortion teaches I don’t have to be responsible.I’ll stand by what I said!!!!
@TiredSoVeryTired - I know MANY who have regretted aborting.My wife at one time helped with Life Choices,a Pro life mission to help women who had abortions or had decided to not have one.Abortion is devestating to the woman who has it(if she has a heart at all) Most would never admit it because of shame!
@Somefishytales - Actually, most of the Republicans I know are pro-choice. I guess that is how we all survive living in California. Anyway, the point is that the government isn’t in the business of going around making people responsible for their actions or else we’d have a hell of a lot more laws. The government can’t force a man to be a physical father and the government can’t decide that a woman must stay pregnant. Simple as that. I’ve seen abortion be a far more responsible decision than many pregnant women have made during pregnancies. We can’t make drug use during pregnancy illegal as a crime against a child and we cannot make abortion an issue of responsibility.
I think leaving brain dead people on life support for years is a severe lack of respect for life. We all have different definitions.
Besides look up the history of legalized birth control and abortion… see how much the Republican Bush family played a role in that. The Republican Party ain’t what it used to be.
@TiredSoVeryTired - Have I known a woman who….? Yes. What bearing does that have on this conversation, at all? None.
Do I know someone that killed someone… Yes. Again, what bearing does that really have on this conversation? None, still. Here’s why.
It’s a “what if” scenario. If that’s the basis for your argument, I suggest you never drive again. In fact, I suggest you never leave your house again either. Who knows what might happen, and do you really want to risk it?
Maybe you’re ok with living your life trying to ward off any bad thing from happening at all. Me? I tend to be a realist, and I understand that bad shit happens, but I don’t let it control how I enjoy my life. I enjoy the free feeling of riding a bike without a helmet. You don’t have to understand that, and you don’t have to agree with it. You can even be plagiarizing and accuse me of being Steve McQueen, or exercising a juvenile machismo. The simple fact is, I still won’t give a damn. I enjoy riding without one, it’s my life I’m risking, and my beliefs are that I have the right to fight against any law that I so choose to fight against. Could someone else’s life be “ruined” if they kill me in a motorcycle accident? Sure. But I could get killed in a semi accident as well, through no fault of someone else’s. Does that mean I should quit my job tomorrow?
In case your rebuttal is that I’m taking an unnecessary risk by not wearing a helmet, where in the truck I have other safeguards in place… so? I’m a risk-taker.
And I don’t really care if you approve of that or not.
Anything else?
@Somefishytales - I’m sure that there are plenty of women that obnoxious fools have shamed into feeling shame about abortions. I don’t know a one of those women. Most women I know felt relief, not shame. Most of those women has also gone on to have children later on (or hell when they weren’t carrying their rapist’s child) and clearly demonstrate a respect for life and their own children. Abortion is not devastating to all women who choose it, it’s absurd to say otherwise. I’m sure there are women who feel that way, I just haven’t met one.
I also know people who work for an unplanned pregnancy/adoption center. They are kind and caring Christians who give love and support to these women without any judgments, including driving them to get abortions. Though not all will drive anyone to abortions, all are required to tell the women of all their options and help them best come to a decision.
@IntoTheWind1 - I don’t care if you are a risk taker or not, on public streets motorcyclists should wear helmets or build motorcycle only roads and risk whatever they want.
Sorry to tell you this, BUT if you’re not telling a lie, and really are an ER Dr, then you’re also an IDIOT.
Tell me have you ever seen a child crushed to death in a safety seat? I HAVE , the child would have lived had he been in his fathers lap, Like I was as a child before the laws went into effect . Insurance companies pay for commercials, and to get laws passed on the basis of How much money it will save them. When they do that they also do studies and figure in how many people will die BECAUSE OF THEIR LAW. Which ever saves them the most money, that is the side they advertise for.
Every time we get in a vehicle , and get on a road way we gamble with our lives. Like can you tell me how much LESS DEAD a person is , whose hands are the only thing they could find of his body….. because they were still holding onto the steering wheel of his SUV….. when a Semi Truck crossed the median and ran him over head on , than someone who was sitting at a stop sign with a full face helmet, Boots, gloves , leathers, and all safety gear on their Motorcycle, and were run completely over by a woman TEXTING in her little sports car ? Not a lot of dfference huh, just a few bucks that wouldn’t buy you a new pool for your mansion…. since they died, and you couldn’t charge them for that.
I had all the saftey gear, and full face helmet on, when a deer hit me. I had no chance to react, didn’t see him coming, He took me and him and my bike off a 20′ embankment. I LIVED. BUT I’m broken up for life.
Because the Dr. screwed up, and now my leg is shot for life, along with my back and other parts that keep breaking down a little at a time. I WISH I HAD DIED . SO If I have to gamble, let me gamble on my own terms, and everyone else SHUT THE FUCK UP. If you live through a horrible auto accident with your seat belt, We will ALL be paying for YOU TOO so maybe you shouldn’t be allowed to drive beacuse it is too dangerous ? and society might have to pay for YOU.
@TiredSoVeryTired - But we won’t, in as many states as allow that. And hey, that list is increasing, apparently.
One of my close friends here in Albuquerque was cited for riding a motorcycle without a helmet back in the late 1960s or early 1970s. When he went before the judge, he said to the judge, “Show me the law.” The judge couldn’t produce the actual statute requiring anyone to wear a helmet, so the charges were dropped, and New Mexico has been riders’-choice ever since then.
one more thing. This crap excuse “I didn’t see them”. The day they attach a death sentence to any motorist who kills a biker, then blames it on “I didn’t see them”……. suddenly they’ll ALL see the bikes. How often do cars run over Dr’s and their buddies all riding their 21 speed bicycles? NOT OFTEN, yet when a Motorcycle which most people normally complain that” they are so loud you can’t hear people talking on my cell phone for a half mile , when they ride by” . GET REAL people the problem is not the Biker, or the lack of wearing helmets. The problem is you don’t want to have to be responsible for the crappy manner in which you all drive., so you want us to wear helmets so maybe when you’re busy putting on your make up, or eating, or talking on your phone, or reading your book while you drive your death machine cages, and you run one of us over, or pull out in front of us, it will cost you a few pennys less, and if we don’t wear one, you can say “It’s not my fault, I didn’t see them”……. well guess what IT”S YOUR DUTY TO WATCH FOR ALL VEHICLES ON THE ROAD…… so quit your moaning, and accept the fact that you KILL US.
@IntoTheWind1 - But this issue isn’t just about you.
It’s about a lot of other fools out there who aren’t insured. And when they get creamed, the ER doctors are required by law to put Humpty Dumpty’s split dumbass head back together again. And those doctors who don’t get paid for their services do get sued by those very same fools who are looking to make a quick buck off the legal system.
Your right to get your head smashed does not supersede the right of the doctor to practice medicine on people who really need it, to get paid for his services and his right to be free from abuse by our legal system.
And when the doctor is working on your smashed head, he’s not able to give care to people who are truly victims of circumstance.
Civil society can only work when we look beyond our own little lives and consider the impact of our actions on others.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Am I my brother’s keeper?
Where does the notion come from that I somehow have to give a hoot about someone else who doesn’t do their responsibility, namely buying insurance, or just not riding if they can’t afford that insurance?
This issue IS just about me. Because I ride. And it’s just about the next guy too. To posit that a law isn’t about me simply because it affects other people as well is the height of insanity. If it affects me, it’s about me.
The individual. What a foreign concept.
How about legislating an insurance requirement if you choose not to wear a helmet.
Oh, wait. They already do
In mine and my grandkids case, yes helmets. The rest of you can do what you want. That’s your business.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - so what’s the difference in that scenario, and a car accident which over runs the insurance limits?????? who pays, or doesn’t pay then…….. and society pics up the tab. HEY !!! Lets make it illegal to drive at all, because someone could be hurt and the extreme cost of medical bills might not be coverable ! makes sense
idiots
@IntoTheWind1 - My comment had absolutely NOTHING to do with being your brother’s keeper.
My comment concerned the medical care providers and understanding that in the real world where we all live, there are many, many people who are not responsible.
Those irresponsible people affect the care providers. They traumatize them as a matter of fact.
I suggest you talk to ER surgeons who works their asses off putting some asshole’s skull back together at no pay, only to get sued because that very same asshole leaves the hospital a cripple.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Except for one problem. Robbing a bank is illegal. People still do it. If these irresponsible people you speak of are inherently irresponsible, what’s to stop them from doing something else that gets them injured or killed “on our dime”
My point, and it’s the superior one, is that I’m responsible for me, you’re responsible for you, and if I don’t want to wear a helmet, that should be my choice.
If you think that legislation is the answer to this problem, if it’s a “cost to society” issue for you, then legislate that those not wearing helmets must have insurance. Problem solved.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - If you’re not qualified to do the job LEAVE that’s for those POOR MILLIONAIRE DR’s…… and by the way I”VE worked in surgery myself I ‘ve seen the Dr’s who was so drunk, or hung over, while he got ready to do surgery……. believe me THEY AREN”T GOD.
@Blue_Moon1 - Like I said earlier in the conversation.
“We can do what we want…and you can do what we want too.”
@IntoTheWind1 - brother, they will never understand or care. all they want and can see is “I WANT MY WAY” and they want to control you and me and everyone else.
@Blue_Moon1 - The issue here is whether or not motorcycle riders should be forced by law to wear helmets.
And I brought up the point that the medical care providers are the ones who are really affected by the legions of split heads who come trooping into their ERs.
Motorcycle riders do not have the right to steal the time away from ER doctors and other patients if they get their skulls smashed for not wearing a helmet.
@IntoTheWind1 - you’re points are well taken, and reasonable, and I agree with you. When it comes to some people reason has nothing to do with it. they only believe insurance company propaganda.
@IntoTheWind1 - What about the ER personnel that have to treat you? Don’t they have rights too?
What right do you have to their time?
@Blue_Moon1 - Discussions of this sort must be based on moral principles, not your personal opinion and experiences.
Most doctors are incredible and would like nothing more than to have the reprobates among them drummed out of the profession.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - As a person who has worked ER many nights myself, you point is MOOT, Emergencies come and go, and NO ONE steals time from anyone. Emergencies happen. No matter what you or anyone else likes. With your line of reason, I guess one day you’ll say heart attacks steal time because people who are a certain age should die anyway?
@PrisonerxOfxLove - What right do I have to their time? Well, two things. First… THEY FUCKING CHOSE THAT CAREER MORON. Second… I’m insured. SO THEY’RE COMPENSATED FOR THAT TIME.
Having fun yet?
@IntoTheWind1 - Doctors choose a career in medicine, not treating people who intentionally put themselves at great risk.
Nobody is in business to wipe your ass, or fix your busted head because of your stupid choices.
Taking care of stupid people is nobody’s profession.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - ”Taking care of stupid people is nobody’s profession. “ that ‘s where you’re wrong. That’s what they take and swear in the HYpocratic Oath…… of course you are not smart enough to think of that I suppose. I’d like to see you come into my ER one night, and have me tell YOU THAT. for something STUPID you did.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - when it comes to Dr’s , they tend to care more when they are young, and less jaded, but as the money takes over, They all begin to think they are GOD and No one can tell them anything…… they are NOT all wonderful and incredible. I’ve worked with them when the suprestars leave for their Tee Times, and left me to “stitch them up, I gotta go”
@Blue_Moon1 - Part of good health, medicine and social policy is prevention of injury.
It is wise to prevent needless, extremely expensive and time consuming injuries.
Wearing a helmet is wise. Making that the law imparts wisdom to the foolish.
Imparting wisdom to the foolish is the greatest wisdom of all.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - you work for an insurance company don’t you.
@Blue_Moon1 - Treating stupid people is not what medicine is. The healing profession is to care for people who really, truly need it.
If the doctor is busy working on stupid people, he is wasting his time and energy.
So it is up to the public to force stupid people to do the smart thing: wear a helmet.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - fail
most do it for the money or prestige. They don’t give a shit why theyre getting a surgery, they get paid either way.
Those who do it to help, same thing. They don’t care who theyre helping, they just want to help.
You bore me.
@PrisonerxOfxLove -
If you are foolish enough to think that the way to “MAKE” people do things is to”impart wisdom” by legislation, you are truly lost in this world.
@IntoTheWind1 - Wearing a helmet is an easy fix to a very grave and expensive problem.
Since the number of motorcycle riders is far greater than the number of bank robbers your analogy doesn’t work.
The police handle the problem of the bank robber.
The helmet handles the problem of protecting the motorcyclist’s skull.
@IntoTheWind1 - you’re dead on accurate by that statement about who cares and who doesn’t., or why they care if they do.
@Blue_Moon1 - All good legislation is imbued with wisdom that guides the citizen to wise action.
Otherwise why have any laws at all?
And if laws are not wise then foolishness will be woven into the social fabric and civil society will break down.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - so how about you start wearing a helmet while driving your car, following your reasoning, that should stop head injuries in cars ! you would be so much wiser, and not stealing time from more important injuries……. maybe that is what we should make LAW….. everyone wears helmets while driving their cars to eliminate head injuries, kind of like they do in races! WOW how about that wisdom, and YOU CAN BE THE FIRST!
@Blue_Moon1 - That is not my reasoning. That is your hallucination of my reasoning.
The automobile affords protection to the driver by its shear size and mass.
That is not so for the cyclist. He’s tooling down the road at 70 mph totally exposed to the elements with ZERO protection from impact should something go wrong.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - maybe that is what we should make LAW….. everyone wears helmets while driving their cars to eliminate head injuries, kind of like they do in races! WOW how about that wisdom, and YOU CAN BE THE FIRST!
@PrisonerxOfxLove - BUT the protection is not enough!!!!!!! in a car, can you not see the WISDOM you spoke of? or would it discomfort you too much….. remember race drivers wear helmets while driving at hight speeds, and can see just fine!
@PrisonerxOfxLove - remember, this is for YOUR protection, because aparently you are not WISE enough to realize it? I mean don’t people die in car wrecks from head injuries at 20 miles an hour ? and at 70 just think of the time and money you’ll be saving those poor Doctors. and insurance companies, and society…… why can’t you see that it would be SO much safer for you?
@PrisonerxOfxLove - you’re so foolish, you can’t see your own arguement is being used for something YOU DON’t WANT so you discount it……. now that shows LACK OF WISDOM
@Blue_Moon1 - oh by the way, in many states, the authorities you quote as all knowing, disagree on many things…… and helmets are just one of those things.
@Blue_Moon1 - Yes it is enough. Insurance companies, law enforcement and the medical profession say so.
Again, you are letting your completely biased personal opinion be your guide.
The key to virtue is finding the middle ground.
Your entire argument is based on total freedom of choice for the bike rider to the exclusion of all others involved should there be an accident.
And forcing motorists to wear helmets is extreme because it’s needless.
The automobile is supported by a 4 wheel chassis. The motorcycle is only supported by two wheels.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - ok you’re arguing is silly. all your arguements apply equally to cars as they do to motorcycles. your circular reasoning is going no where. I refuse to continue to have a battle of witts against an unarmed assailant. good night
@Blue_Moon1 - All people very rarely agree on things like this. That’s why we are having the discussion.
I have made claims that illustrate the benefit of wearing the helmet.
Taking away the rider’s freedom in this one area has great benefit for not only the rider but for the medical system that is already collapsing under the weight of exorbitant costs and drains on personnel.
Since head injuries in this situation are so incredibly expensive and so easily prevented it makes sense to require a helmet.
@Blue_Moon1 - You’re obviously not reading my comments. Goodbye. Farewell.
In NH both seat belts AND helmets are optional…I carry with me a bit of that Live Free or Die attitude.
Wow! When I wrote this I was hoping to get a feel of what people thought about the issue. I not only received that, but also delved deep into psychiatry, abortion, politics, and even got a “you’re an idiot” even though this is the first comment I have posted other than the initial blog!
@Blue_Moon1 - I’m somewhat confused on how I am an idiot. Yes, I am an ER physician. No, I have never seen a child crushed in a car seat, though I have seen hundreds who have survived terrible accidents only due to their seats. Are you arguing against using child safety seats? I can say with confidence that I see more automobile accidents than the vast majority of the population and can say that they save lives. Period.
@IntoTheWind1 - Thank you for your many comments! I’m relatively sure you bike more than the majority of others here and you provide the insight of experience to the discussion. However, I still must disagree with you. As an ER doctor, I want to minimize injuries and maximize safety. After seeing head injuries that would have been prevented with a helmet, I can only conclude that a law would save lives, prevent suffering, save money, energy, and decrease misery. (Though, for what it’s worth, you still win the argument cause the law is still repealed for the time being).
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Strong, well thought, cogent arguments… who are you? Shouldn’t someone be talking about Hitler by now? Oh, and “Civil society can only work when we look beyond our own little lives and consider the impact of our actions on others.” Wow. Eloquent. People often claim they are the only ones at risk… yet the ER personnel are the ones picking up the pieces.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - guess I’ll finish with this. THough you will not read MY COMMENTS. you call my opinion biased, and you are correct in that. but, I served my country in the military to guarantee my right to have an opinion, and to allow you to have yours. What saddens me, is that you don’t seem to have an opinion, other than what you are told to have. You accept blindly certain groups of people as complete, all knowing, and not possibly wrong , or corrupted by money spent to guarantee their positions on this subject. think of all you’ve said and anser one thing….. and I asked this earlier, but you didn’t address it.
How much more dead, is a motorcyclist that didn’t wear a helmet and died in a 40 mph crash , than a car driver who spun their car into a collision at 80 miles an hour, and their brain is lying on the side of the road ? You see, I have been in the ER with BOTH The driver was keeping up with traffic heading to work….. as you most likely do, most days….. going with the flow of traffic, no matter the speed. Cars offer little more protection, and certainly no more, when faced with a train, or a semi, or high speed, or even low speed flip of an SUV. DEAD is DEAD it doesn’t come in degrees.
2 wheels or 4 wheels, you can die in either one, and a helmet WOULD help in a car crash , but society hasn’t gotten that far yet…… but wait…… it will. soon enough insurance companies will use your arguements against you, and you will be wearing helmets in your car…… because it will save an insurance company a few $$$$
So now we’re back to my military service. I served FOR FREEDOM, not to have it taken away. I will allow you to wear anything you want, and give you freedom to do the things you want, BUT when you start taking MY FREEDOMS…… soon I will be taking YOURS, and since I was willing to sign that check that said “UP TO and INCLUDING MY LIFE” ……. well I want mine, and am not willing to give them away, just because you want me to. At that point , our country will become a battle ground……. and that is not what I want.. Benjami Franklin said
“Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security” think that one over, and tell me how much more wise you are than he was.
@IntoTheWind1 -
“What about the woman who has an abortion,
then regrets it, and ends up needing therapy, at the expense of the
state? Oops. If there’s the “what if you lose control and I hit you”
argument, then there’s that argument too. It’s absurd to think that
someone having an abortion affects society in no way at all, but then
say that someone dying in a wreck bc they didn’t wear a helmet does
affect society.”
From what I’ve read depression is equally likely after an abortion as it is live birth, so at best it’s a wash.
“Increased insurance costs? Ok, well… an
abortion that’s covered under insurance is a cost for the company. The
very nature of insurance is that it’s a pooled cost system. The more
services performed, the greater the cost, and the greater the premiums
so that company can recoup their losses.”
I didn’t say anything about insurance costs. And I don’t even know what argument you’re making anyway – it’s immoral to insure people?
“End of story: It’s my
life that I risk when I ride without a helmet. Wearing a helmet will not
protect anyone else, nor will not wearing a helmet endanger anyone
else. By the time I need the helmet, the crash is already happening, and
the helmet won’t affect that. I pay for my insurance, my potential
burial costs are covered, and the only way someone in my family could
sue the other driver is if the other driver is at fault… ergo, just
don’t fucking hit me, and you won’t have to worry about it.”
Society most likely incurs the cost of your medical treatment either way, a point which you are ignoring. And the notion that a helmet doesn’t help is absurd. Are there crashes where a helmet wouldn’t matter? Sure. But there are crashes where it will save your life or prevent you from being a vegetable too.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - “Imparting wisdom to the foolish is the greatest wisdom of all.” – Wrong!! – try “Imparting wisdom to the foolish is the greatest foolishness of all.”
@IntoTheWind1 - Doctors, nurses, and first responders are an elite group of human beings. What makes them elite is their HUGE heart for healing. I’ve never seen a more compassionate, caring group of people
Saying that doctors are only in it for the money and prestige is insulting and the result of a profound lack of understanding.
They could make far easier money being a Donald Trump. For they certainly have the smarts.
Healing is a vocation. You have to be born for it.
And such a precious, needed vocation shouldn’t be wasted on people who care so little about themselves and others.
Remember, Jesus’ ministry was healing. And he didn’t heal just anyone. The proud and those of little faith were left out in the cold.
The helmet law is society bringing the prideful and the faithless in out of the cold. That is true compassion.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - “That is your hallucination of my reasoning.” – Wrong! – You cannot have an hallucination of reasoning. Hallucinations are a visual thing. I’ve been meaning to tell you this for ages. Sorry for being so slack!
@Relic47 - Try not. DO! ~ Yoda
I said do, not try.
Quit hallucinating my side of the discussion.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - And you can’t hallucinate a discussion.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - I think you must be imaginating!
@PrisonerxOfxLove - I thought it was more of an illusion.
@Relic47 - pay no attention to the fool on the hill……. sorry I should have said TROLL
@slicy - I am saying that insurance companies do studies, and in those studies there are a certain number of deaths that are certain to be caused by the laws that are passed as a result of those studies. I personally handled a child in ER with a Dr by my side, and he knew as did I, that because the saftey seat was locked in position, it could not move when the car was T-boned in the rear door. Thus, the seat which was to save a life, resulted in the death of a chld. When we legislate that people MUST do a certain thing because Insurance companies say it will save lives, we ALSO guarantee that so many will DIE. So in effect, we are saying it is worth KILLING YOUR child to save theirs. I cannot as a Veteran who fought for peoples freedom, in good concience force people to gamble like that. Sure many could die, but many will live also, and I want the freedom to choose….. and NOT have it FORCED on me so insurance companies can have a higher dividend payout for their stock holders. We take chances every day. Go back and read all my comments and get a better idea of what I personally have lived through.
about the idiot thing. I am sorry to offend you, but I have worked for years in the ER myself as a highly functioning part of a trauma team. Just because you’re a Dr doesn’t mean you’re smarter than those around you. I’ve pulled more than one young Dr’s butt out of the fire …… because he thought he knew everything. Dr’s are NOT GOD. some are good, but they have the tools that others before them did not. Some are even excellent, but they tend to be humble, and realize that experience in their team is one of the greatest tools they have at their disposal. I’ve seen Dr’s angry and mistreat nurses, and techicians, when the Dr was at fault. so sing your self praises to someone who doesn’t know Dr’s on an intimate basis……. they are just people, whose parents had the money to send them thru medical school, and sadly sometimes they are not as smart as the people around them. But What do I know you’re the Dr. right
@Blue_Moon1 - What a minute… I served in the Navy to protect freedoms too! And perhaps riding a motorcycle on public roads should require a helmet. I’m not sure that is infringing on anybody’s rights so much as it is logical. Perhaps helmet laws grant people freedom from their own stupidity.
@agnophilo - No doubt about it… an abortion in a real American abortion clinic is much, much safer than a full term delivery. That’s a fact and also results in far less depression. I’m not suggesting abortion is a great thing, but pregnancy and delivery is no cake walk.
When a person becomes a vegetable on life support as the result of not wearing a helmet on a bike, there’s no way (unless he’s Superman) the rest of us aren’t paying for his support. Heck, I’m not sure even Obamacare deals with that kind of stuff, but I assume if your insurance is through your job and you become a vegetable you will lose that job and the insurance with it.
Yes- helmets and seat belts do not make you invulnerable, but they do protect you in many situations. The argument that you may still die while using these precautions does not invalidate that these precautions still provide you with the maximum possible in protection in the event of an accident.
Ultimately, just as the state has the right to set speed limits, the state has the right to enforce and require the use of safety compliance (including prohibiting texting on the phone while driving).
No disrespect to anyone that has been injured in an accident while not using these precautions (or to those who were using them), but your right to drive in whatever way you desire does not trump the rights of those concerned with your welfare and safety.
@mtngirlsouth - The reason a woman may “choose” to murder her baby is because the Supreme Court said that such an action was protected by the right to privacy.
Privacy is not an issue in motorcycle helmet laws so there is no connection between abortion and the helmet law.
Consequently, people who argue for no helmets must do so on the merits of not wearing a helmet.
So far, all you folks can come up with is the childish argument of, “It’s my right to do whatever I want because I say so.”
The merits of requiring a helmet are to protect the personal safety of the rider, reduce fatal and crippling accidents, reduce the suffering of riders and their families due to fatal and crippling accidents, reduce the financial burden that motorcycle accidents cause, free ER personnel to treat people who really need care, etc., etc.
So from a rational point of view, you folks are going to have to come up with better reasoning to support your claim to freedom.
With freedom comes responsibility. And there are few things more irresponsible than a motorcyclist choosing not to wear a helmet.
Absolutely they should NOT be required. Neither should seat belts, or life jackets, or anything else related to individual choice.
And people can say **Oh, but there will be costs, blah blah blah** –
I should have the right to waive those costs. To say, **Okay, if I get hurt it’s my own fault and I don’t really care, it was worth it to feel the wind in my hair before I died.**
Whether I am safe or not is my business, not the government’s.
@galadrial - The problem isn’t the bikers, the problem is that it is too easy to sue people in this country, and that the families of the dead care more about grubbing money than mourning their dead loved ones. You are blaming the victim.
@IntoTheWind1 - Safe rides.
@TiredSoVeryTired - Nice to meet you, I’m glad you are a veteran also. Concerning this discussion, take your example and place it on your self. Lets say that you, like almost everyone here has done at some time, are speeding along at 80 mph going to work, and doing no more in your opinion ,than keeping up with traffic. Suddenly there is a wreck in front of you, and you have no where to go.
Everyone knows wearing helmets lessens the chance of head injuries. Even in automobile wrecks that is true. That is why race car drivers wear helmets to protect them by requirement. They are able to see while driving to speeds of 200 mph, and even live through wrecks at that speed. Should we not legislate, that on the basis of your arguement about motorcyclists, the same is effective for cars? So, Are you ready to start wearing your helmet in your car now? because it does all the things you said for motorcyclists? The only difference in cars is more people drive them. But Societys costs could be cut by enacting such laws. Insurance companies, and states could save even more money because there are many more automobile accidents than motorcycle accidents. Why should comfort be a consideration ,in a car, when it can be shown that helmets would INCREASE saftey, and LIMIT injuries in a major way
Are you ready for helmet laws in cars? Just so we can free someon from being stupid enough not to wear something that would clearly keep them safe and almost insure they didn’t die from a head injury, besides don’t we need to protect ourselves from airbag injuries ?
@dustysojourner - My problem with your arguement, is one that is based in something we have lost TRUE FREEDOM. You say “Ultimately, just as the state has the right to set speed limits” that may be so….. and yet we seem to forget a principal that our forefathers understood clearly. The State nor the Federal Govt. were created to control THE CITIZENS. Government was created to SERVE and obey the will of the citizens. NOT the other way around. Which has become a prevalent way for people who want to force other people to do what they want them to do.
In other words “if I can’t make you obey me, I’ve got this Big Entity….. who will force you to obey me.
Benjamin Franklin said “Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither, liberty nor security” there is a parallel in that statement, that is important. But of course you, and several others here are so much wiser than Benjamin was…….. what do I know.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - One, I did not ask why women may choose to murder their babies. Two, I don’t really give a damn what you or anyone else thinks, you will NOT change my mind that people should be free to wear or not wear helmets and seat belts – it is their lives and their bodies to do with as they please. And I also don’t really give a damn what you think about ER doctors and who ought to take precedence in the ER. (Personally, I think that argument is really stupid. Most accidents ending up in the ER were preventable. Duh.) The idea that me doing as I wish with my body being childish is really out there – that is what freedom is – not having the government legislate every aspect of our lives.
Lastly, I just want to put it out there, as far as I am concerned *you* have lost all credibility and I just don’t take anything you say seriously anyway. Here and there you kiss ass of certain crowds and from what I’ve seen, you really don’t have any concrete stance on anything except the “Holy” Roman Catholic Church. You are internally inconsistent, and are in no position whatsoever to talk about being rational. You’re just a jerk who likes to stir shit and make Christians look bad.
Please do not answer or talk to me anymore. I won’t see it as I am going to block you as soon as this posts anyway.
yes and condoms too
I don’t think that motorcycles per say are any more dangerous then cars. People die in car accidents every day, and I would bet more so than motorcycles. It’s not the motorcycle that is dangerous, it is the driver of any kind of vehicle that is dangerous. I am not a fan of motorcycles, not because of the motorcycle itself, but because drivers of larger vehicles lack respect for motorcycles. When driving, I am sure to keep a safe distance from a motorcycle in case that person happens to fall for whatever reason, I want to be able to stop before running them over. I live in PA where it is not required to wear a helmet. I understand it is a person’s choice and if they feel as if they don’t need one, more power to them. I myself would wear one, but that’s my choice. People die in car accidents all the time and they are not required to wear protective devices other then seat belts but it is their choice to wear it or not. Many people don’t, law or not. And we all know that for a fact. In some ways seat belts can be more harm than good, when you can’t get yourself out in a grave situation. So nothing is perfect. And in reality law or not, we all have a choice. I chose to wear my seat belt, not because it’s the law, but because I think my chances of survival are greater when and if I do end up in an accident. Someone was saying that these people who don’t wear helmets will sue us if they get hurt. Hmmm, how is that any different than the person in the car that will sue you if they get hurt? If it’s your fault and someone is severely injured, whether being in a car or not, they have the right to sue. So that statement doesn’t really hold any water. Pay attention on the road and have respect for other drivers and you won’t have to worry about that.
@Blue_Moon1 - I think wearing helmets in cars would cause more accidents considering they obstruct the view considerably. In fact, I’d guess there would be more accidents if car drivers wore helmets. We should be doing all we can to decrease car accidents and ensure that the inside of a car is as safe as it should be. None of that has anything to do with a person’s head hitting the pavement, which is least likely to happen in a car accident if someone wears their seat belt. Let’s work more on making air bags safer and effective and less on something silly like if motorcyclists have to wear helmet, everyone in a car should too.
@IntoTheWind1 - I am absolutely amazed by your single minded foolishness.
@Bricker59 - and that matters to me why?
@TiredSoVeryTired - I think anyone who ignores the fact that Nascar drivers wear full face helmets and travel at speeds up to and over 200 mph, and have higher survival rates than everyday traffic accidents, proves helmets can, and are worn safely in automobiles everyday, and then makes statements such as yours, is seeing only what you want to, apparently you didn’t read his comment all the way through.
@Bricker59 - I’m absolutely amazed by your lack of ability to reason clearly.
@mtngirlsouth - The purpose of discussion is to examine our own ideas and those of others.
If you don’t care what others think, why should anyone care what you think? (So why not stay home and stay quiet?)
Consequently, your true wish is to impose your ideas upon others without caring what others think.
That is unethical and further supports my case that your argument is simple childish egoism expressed in a simple childish temper tantrum.
I agree that helmets should be required.
@jeribaby18 - The motorcycle is much more dangerous then the automobile.
The automobile is supported on a four wheel chassis. That means that the driver does not have to expend any energy or attention in balancing the vehicle and holding it upright.
The motorcycle only has two wheels like the bicycle. So the rider must devote constant attention and focus to balance and hold the vehicle upright every second he is in motion.
If not he will crash.
The automobile is stabilized by design. The motorcycle is unstable by design.
The automobile protects the driver from the elements by design. The motorcycle does not protect the rider from the elements by design.
Such fundamental differences in the design prove that the motorcycle is much more dangerous than the automobile.
@autumn_cannibal76 - Your only right is to remain silent. When you get arrested. (A little jailhouse humor)
We live in a compassionate, civil society that values life, even the life of the heedlessly, willfully stupid.
That is a value that is woven into our culture.
Consequently, you are not free to willfully cripple and maim yourself without the civil authorities and civil care givers getting involved.
So have some compassion on others besides yourself. Wear a helmet.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - Ok, that may be true, but that means the person on the motorcycle must be devoting more constant attention and focus than the person in the automobile, as you had stated. So by your logic than the motorcyclist is the better driver. If the automobile is so much more stable by design, then why are there so many automobile deaths? I will tell you why, because the automobile driver, whether in a safer vehicle or not may not possess the willingness to focus while driving and are more careless because of this safety net they call a car. Hence, probably causing more accidents than a motorcyclist would. Which proves my point, no matter what vehicle you choose to drive, and no matter what safety device you chose or not chose to use, it is on the driver of that vehicle to be safe and responsible for themselves and the motorists around them. So whether a person wears a helmet or a set belt, it isn’t the single reason people die in vehicular accidents. A helmet will not always save one’s life just as a seat belt. And as I stated before, everyone states a helmet should be law as a seat belt is, but in all reality millions of people don’t wear a seat belt whether it is law or not, and they believe it’s their life and their choice to do so or not.
@jeribaby18 - Most people can’t maintain the kind of unwavering focus that is needed to ride a motorcycle safely. Lapses take place regularly so it’s just a matter of luck and time before something happens.
And even with 100% robot-like focus and attention, the motorcycle’s inherent instability and lack of driver protection makes it very risky.
I have no desire to have the government or insurance companies making choices for me of any kind. Life jacket, seat belt, DUI and helmet laws… They aren’t written to protect motorists, motorcyclists, or boaters. They’re written to protect insurance companies and their profits, and often they are actually written by “advisory panels” which consist of insurance industry scions.
You doctor are no more responsible for an accident victim’s choices than the mechanic who will repair that person’s vehicle. Lighten up, and stop cheering the insurance industry and its government lackies on in their bid to control every aspect of our private lives.
Yes, they should be required. As a Rehab Nurse, I see what happens when someone did not protect their brain. Sad, very, very sad!!
There is only 1 solid argument for not wearing a motorcycle helmet. Only one!
1.) When a motorcycle “genius” gets into an accident without a helmet and die’s, it helps further advance a civilized society. Why does it help further advance a civilized society??? Because we don’t need that type of “intelligence” in the gene pool breeding.
I seriously cannot believe what I am reading here…….WOW!!!
More laws never equal more freedom, genius.
@Against_The_Winds - I’m sure I’d be a super safe driver just going round and round with a bunch of trained professionals too. Not what you see out in the real world. Hell, the cars aren’t even built the same. I have family who were once in auto racing and they are hell of a lot better drivers than me and most other people I know.
@Blue_Moon1 - I understand your argument and respect that perspective. And if the citizens of the country practiced self-restraint and demonstrated love towards one another of their own volition, then I believe we would be at liberty to welcome and embrace the concept that you just expressed, as our founders did. Unfortunately, that is not the current state of character that our citizens reside in. You would not want the government to remove speed limits from the roads because you know, as well as I do, someone would get in their sports car and try to do 150 down a two lane highway and get a bunch of people killed in a car wreck because they showed no personal restraint.
This is why the founders, along with the argument you just gave, also talked about the Living God as the source and giver of true liberty.
Good gracious. The comments really went awry, yes??? I remember when I was in high school we had a big debate about whether seatbelts should be required in cars. What I learned: who cares?? Make a decision and own it. If a law is enacted, follow it. Otherwise, use your judgment. Done.
@mtngirlsouth - Huh, who would have ever thought we would agree on something?!? :P
Sheesh, I’m in the minority here, but I don’t think helmets, seatbelts or life jackets should be law. I would never ride/drive a motorcycle without a helmet as I am well aware of the consequences. However, I have an issue with wearing my seatbelt, but I’m working on that and I rarely forget to buckle up any longer. To be fair, I have always had an irrational fear of being trapped in a burning car with my arms broken and unable to get the seatbelt undone. This fear was made worse when my brother was hit by a drunk driver and his care burst into flames and he died (they were unable to determine if his seatbelt was on or not). I know it’s an irrational fear and seatbelts are a good thing, and now that I have a new car that makes an annoying, nonstop dinging noise if I don’t buckle up I rarely forget to wear my seatbelt. I still don’t think these should be law.
Just an aside to motorcyclists: I have been around motorcycles all my life, my uncle is a fanatic. I am acutely aware of motorcycles on the road. I have definitely seen my share of idiot riders out there. Personally, I think it’s idiotic not to wear a helmet, but I’ll let you have that choice. However, as much as everyone gripes about “start seeing motorcycles”, how about motorcyclists obeying the driving laws? I was stopped at a red light, in the right lane about to make a right turn, completely legal at the red light. There was a motorcyclist behind me, I knew he was there and I was watching my left to turn, as I started to turn I again turned and looked to my right – just in time to see the damn motorcyclist pull up along my right side illegally in an attempt to get ahead of me and make a right turn. If I had not been acutely aware of motorcyclists he would have been hit for his own stupidity.
This is one more example of people, (spoiled brats I call them) flexing their muscle with legislatures to get their supposed freedom back. In the meantime they remain uneducated about what is really important for them to be responsible citizens.
yes they should be required.
@PrisonerxOfxLove - **Consequently, you are not free to willfully cripple and maim yourself without the civil authorities and civil care givers getting involved**
What you are describing is the Nanny State, which is neither civil nor compassionate, but rather a dangerous tool that–while well-intentioned–can easily be used for oppression and corruption.
Defending freedom very often means defending another person’s right to do something you think is downright stupid, risky, or senseless. While I would never handle snakes to show my devotion to God, if someone else wants to do so I will happily defend their right to do it.
Do I think doing things like riding without a helmet, handling snakes, or running through the woods naked on a cold day are downright stupid? Yep.
Are they any of my business, or anyone elses? Hell no.
@AOK4WAY - Amen! Insturance Premiums went up 300% in my state when we forced to buy it and the accident laws wer altered…
@autumn_cannibal76 - What I am describing is reality. And the reality is, not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle is suicidal, it puts unnecessary burdens on law enforcement, first responders, ER personnel and the hospitals they serve, and on the families of all those involved in motorcycle accidents and the taxpayer.
The “freedom” do that is social negligence not liberty.
Simply put, the ‘standard’ highway accident has the potential to kill most motorcycle riders or render them so damaged there is really no point regardless of whether a helmet is worn. While this does not deter me, the idea that someone else should dictate what protective gear I have on is ridiculous. Wearing helmets and seat belts should be a choice rather than a law which includes a fine or other punishment, simply because those who will not end up not doing so anyway. I personally always wear both a helmet and a seat belt (vehicle pending, of course) and plan to do nothing different. The fact that there is one less thing being dictated is a boon for Michigan and I’m glad they have made that step. It needs to be figured out that the government cannot save people from stupid, and many of the laws that exist are meant for precisely that. If they feel the need to come up with more laws, perhaps they should be about requiring a good reason to sue someone…
The last thing people need is the government babying them. Let natural selection do its job.
@HemptressDecember - The right kind of laws, ie good government, does in fact enhance liberty.
Examples of libertarian societies are pre-surge Iraq where sectarian and ethnic violence were responsible for the slaughter of thousands.
The post-Civil War South was also an example of a libertarian society. It was absolutely miserable and horrible.
A well designed government is the core of any civil society. And with that government comes laws that regulate certain kinds of anti-social behavior.
Willfully choosing not to wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle is anti-social behavior. Thus the need for the law.